Attack of the (PCB) Clones

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rankar
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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by rankar » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:31 pm

and I forgot to reiterate the other prevailing thoughts here: my total and complete support is behind our guys on here like wermy, helder, and a whole bunch of others. I will never buy a stolen piece of work... and it sucks because a few weeks ago as I was getting into this, I purchased a shell kit off ebay as part of my research and it came with a basic pcb by 8 bit oldies. Turns out it was a helder design :(

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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by OrigamiBoy » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:48 am

Thanks for clearing everything up wermy :)

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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by Majeye » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:15 pm

wermy wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:33 am
Hey guys,
I wanted to address a couple issues that have come up recently, and give others a chance to weigh in. Please read this to the end -- I'd appreciate any input/thoughts you might have!

We’ve grown quite a bit, but this is still very much a community of hobbyists/enthusiasts who just like to make and share cool stuff. One thing I did not anticipate with all that growth was the number of people who would be designing, manufacturing and selling custom parts. It’s been really cool to watch and be a part of, especially considering that the vast majority of people here are just doing it for fun as a hobby in their spare time.

With all that growth, we’re bound to hit a few bumps in the road. One of those that has popped up a couple times recently is people trying to copy another person’s work/design, and cash in on it by selling clones/reproductions.

I realize this can be kind of a gray area; sometimes there are only so many ways you can go about designing/making something. A good example of that would be glass screen covers for the DMG-01 case: a few people have made those and sold them here, but there’s literally only one way/shape to make them so I wouldn’t consider that to be ripping off someone else’s design or idea.

But sometimes it’s much more clear-cut, like with custom PCBs. Recently a forum member copied a version of Helder’s Game Boy Zero AIO board nearly wholesale: same features, same components placed in nearly the exact same locations, etc. The same user, it’s come to light, is trying to do the same thing with Helder’s mintyPi button PCB and screen board (this in addition to a another forum member trying to steal those designs from the PCB manufacturer a few months ago). Situations like these, I think most would agree, are not ok.

Going forward, we will be cracking down on this. If you try to sell something that is an obvious clone of someone else’s design, especially if you haven’t added anything novel to it or made it your own in some way, your thread will be locked, paypal buttons removed, and you may end up banned (if you have a legitimate thread that gets locked, please reach out to a mod or email me to explain the situation). If you want to iterate on someone else’s work (which in my opinion is fine), please reach out to the original designer/maker for permission, and indicate you’ve done so.

One more thing I’d like to bring up: I’ve seen a few other instances recently where someone was selling something they maybe didn’t create/design themselves, but were either just selling a single pre-assembled unit of a project they put together (like a mintyPi or GBZ), or were selling parts with permission from the creator(s) (like the forum member who recently sold a few mintyPi kits). People jumped to conclusions and broke out the pitchforks, and it was kind of sad/frustrating to see. So with all of the above in mind, let's also try to assume the best until proven otherwise. :)

I like this A LOT. Thank you Wermy!
1st MintyPi Project (In Progress)

Don't support thieves like ckliang who copied Helder's AIO to resell and is now cloning the mintyPi, support the original creators and not the thieves!

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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by dirtybeagles » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:07 am

"Let's make Sudomod Great Again." --currently selling red hats :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness. I love this community and this sort of thing has no place here. Thanks Wermy for doing this. All in support for this.

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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by mexflyboy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:11 am

Hmm, I think in some ways the problem is self-caused. How often do we see one of the PCB boards sell out very quickly? Since the creators of the original various boards don't keep up with demand, there will always be someone who can supply a clone of a board.

As a "maker" I can understand the frustration of clones... but. as a hobbyist/end-consumer, I can understand the utter frustration when a PCB is released in very small amounts and sells out very quickly before I've had a chance to buy one! I've been through a couple of rounds of this, and a good example is the new SNES Mini thing, it's taken me forever to get my hands on one at the *original* price, instead of the price some tw*t overcharges on Ebay!

So if you want to get rid of the problem long term, I think you really gotta work on getting more PCBs out there instead of drip feeding them to us, or work with the clone people to have them give you a percentage of the profits from the clone of your board.

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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by kite » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:16 am

RE: Supply. As a general question which would you prefer:

a) Preorders open for X weeks, preorder closes, items get shipped (repeat)
b) Preorders open (no close date), at a determined date a 'cutoff' is made, and those orders will be guaranteed shipping by X date, any order afterwards is guaranteed to Y date.. once X orders are shipped, the Y cutoff date is set and any new orders will be guaranteed by Z date.. (repeat)

So far everyone has been doing (a) as it seems sensible and easy to manage, option (b) essentially means I'm always open to accepting payment (order secured etc) but depending on what is being made currently your ship date may vary.. as a buyer I'd 100% want to know when to expect, and it's clear with option (a). With option (b) it "seems" less clear, but at least people can 'pay and forget' because they know they won't miss out.. (it also gives me (the maker) the ability to 'over order' and people from order Y may get bumped up a class and orders shipped sooner)

Thoughts? (sorry to slightly off topic, but the comment above suggests supply as a way to combat, so interested if option (b) even remotely combats the issue or not)
PRE-ORDER OPEN: http://www.sudomod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4351
Kite's SUPER AIO Support Thread: http://www.sudomod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2508
Kite's PRE-ORDER SIGN UP NOTIFICATION: https://goo.gl/forms/e97uUvPOfUxPWdz82
Kite's Next Project Hardware Survey: https://goo.gl/forms/mUZYg7hAA8XqFaTk2

NEED TO CONTACT ME? SEND AN EMAIL (PMs don't get checked often and are hard to track)

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YaYa
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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by YaYa » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 am

I think a) is better but as soon as a) is closed, opening a b) might help to keep people waiting. They (people in b) will know they will have a board but they will not know when exactly. But the buy is secured. After b) is closed, open a a) for more « direct » sale (even with a slight delay).

I cannot understand that people cannot understand (lol) that this is not made by a company as full time job... i cannot understand people that cannot wait and deserve their device...
It seems that the whole people on earth are now used to fast consumption... i have a good image for this... the tiny little birds with their mom vomiting pre-digested meal in their mouth... this is not funny.

People should feel happy to be able to get access to all those things. I remember some years ago, i was dreaming of an arcade machine at home and had actually nothing to help me build that project... even no controllers except hacking a real keyboard with all of its cons...

This debate is endless...
You can provide the market with thousand of boards, people won’t be happy because they are too expensive.
You can provide the market with hundreds of cheap stuff, people win’t be happy because they have no support or the design is crappy...
You can provide the market whit shit and tell it’s gold, people would buy, and you can provide gold in bad packaging, people would spit on it...

Really boring and disgusting behavior...

I feel really sorry for the future...
ORDER a set of decorative vinyl label stickers for DMG GBZ projects--->ckick
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RxBrad
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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by RxBrad » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:52 am

Re: Supply

I'm just going the route of posting the Gerbers and letting people order and build their own stuff from OSHPark or whatever. If someone doesn't want to learn SMD soldering, they can still just use it as a common ground button board.

jakejm79
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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by jakejm79 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:30 am

YaYa wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 am
This debate is endless...
You can provide the market with thousand of boards, people won’t be happy because they are too expensive.
You can provide the market with hundreds of cheap stuff, people win’t be happy because they have no support or the design is crappy...
You can provide the market whit shit and tell it’s gold, people would buy, and you can provide gold in bad packaging, people would spit on it...

Really boring and disgusting behavior...

I feel really sorry for the future...
Cheap, Quality & Speed, you only get to pick 2.

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YaYa
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Re: Attack of the (PCB) Clones

Post by YaYa » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:34 am

jakejm79 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:30 am
YaYa wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 am
This debate is endless...
You can provide the market with thousand of boards, people won’t be happy because they are too expensive.
You can provide the market with hundreds of cheap stuff, people win’t be happy because they have no support or the design is crappy...
You can provide the market whit shit and tell it’s gold, people would buy, and you can provide gold in bad packaging, people would spit on it...

Really boring and disgusting behavior...

I feel really sorry for the future...
Cheap, Quality & Speed, you only get to pick 2.
I’m forthy years old and i will definitely choose just quality. I will not die waiting, and i will not get richer trying to save few bucks and go for a crappy stuff...
ORDER a set of decorative vinyl label stickers for DMG GBZ projects--->ckick
Comprehensive guide to save RAM/CPU/power on a GBZ--->click
YaYa's first GBZ - Kite's SAIO - Big Battery - NO Glue - DC Jack - minimum case mod--->click

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